# Submission Creation Requests (archived)

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closed as a duplicate of: Submission Creation Requests
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[TEMPORARILY ON HOLD] (see comments and Q&A)

Hello,

## Bootstrapping Generations

Authors: Alejandro Rivero

A supersymmetric version of Chew's "democratic bootstrap" argument predicts the existence of three generations of particles, with one quark, of type "up", more massive that the other five.

It is a condensation of the arxiv papers http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0512065, http://arxiv.org/abs/0710.1526 and http://arxiv.org/abs/0910.4793.

EDIT: The point is, given a SUSY model, ask for "nuclear democracy" in the old sense of every particle can be built as a composite of others. The paper then studies the particular case of building the scalar sector from the particles in the fermionic sector.

answered Aug 28, 2014 by (260 points)
reshown Jul 14, 2015

I am afraid you will not get very kind review, as the paper misunderstands the nature of the bootstrap condition, and substitutes a strange new thing that should not be associated to this name. If you wish to get a kinder review, you could ask about the subject as a question on physics.stackexchange: "Does it make sense to postulate an equal number of quark states and quark-quark bound states?" I would prefer if we do not import this submission, because you will simply get hostile comments regarding the misunderstanding of the bootstrap, and regarding the incompatibility of the boson-fermion counting equality you postulate with the standard model, or any supersymmetric extension of it.

I am afraid that such question would get even more hostile comments because without reading of the paper the answer seems obviously "no".  And in any case,  I would hope that the review will also get some constructive comment. The result is interesting and I think that some effort should be done to save it.

But about the meaning of "democratic" and "bootstrap" in Chew's work, I agree that it could be useful to do a generic question. It seems that Chew keep changing the use of the word as the research evolved.

EDIT: in fact, the formulation of your question is already a hint to improve the paper. It could be useful to decompose the question in two separate objections: "has it sense to postulate that some elementary particles can be seen as composites of other ones?" and "has it sense to request the same number of bosonic and fermionic degrees of freedom in a theory"?

The question you are asking in the request is a really good one: is it possible for a supersymmetry to link fundamental and composite particles? To link constituents to bound-states? This question will be well received here for sure. Also, I don't know the answer. You should ask on Q&A, and if nobody knows for a long time, it might be an open question (I don't think it is open, but maybe) Your submission will needlessly generate negative reviews for what is essentially a preliminary effort to find an answer to a very nice question.

@arivero: We are still in beta, and we are trying to attract professionals. Papers that are too distant from professional interest will dissuade professionals from joining. I am asking you not to please not push the matter, your paper can get a review eventually if you insist, but it will be a negative one, and you will have a negative reputation, and then you will lose your voting rights.

When you ask a paper to go in reviews, it is expected to contain original results, while your paper contains only state counting which can be reproduced quickly by others. Such state-counting can be done in the body of a Q&A question, you can just write a sketch and people will understand what you mean.

If you had a real model of how to do what you want, it would be appropriate for reviews, but there is no full model in there, nor a sketch of one. This is why it would get negative reviews, and this would be a pity for such a nice question. If you stick to Q&A, you will get positive responses for sure.

I did not miss the logic of the paper--- your observation is original, but it is not useful absent a model which can do something with bound states and fundamental states.

For specific problems (there are infinitely many problems with such logic) There are misunderstandings there about the state counting: for example, you have 3 colors of quarks, but the bound states are only colorless, you have colorless bound states of three quarks, there are no bound states of neutrinos, etc, so that the actual method by which you get your "three generations" is completely incorrect.

But the general question is ok--- can you mix bound states and fundamental states with SUSY? That's a great question, and it will get upvotes. I'm just giving political advice here. Your paper will not be reviewed positively, but your general idea of mixing composite and elementary particles using supersymmetry is interesting.

Regarding the status of your paper, perhaps "In discussion" is better than frozen. At the end of the process, we would like to have a professional submission to review, and for you to get positive feedback. It's better than a superficial review which is just pointing out big gaps and ignoring the main idea.

Definitely I need to improve my communication skills. From the paper:

... is constituted by a string terminated in a pair of quarks.
With this imaginery, we can try a weaker version of the democratic bootstrap.

I read this (actually, I wrote this) as telling that each scalar composite contains two quarks. From this all the combinations follow. It is not the case that I am cherry picking the quarks. (EDIT: but is is true that I am implicitly assuming that for each combination we have only one scalar. I should be more explicit on this point).

With this ansatz I show that there is no solution. So then I relax, setting that only $r,s$ quarks can be attached to the string:

We postulate thus that only a subset of ”light quarks” are in the terminations of the string and then able to form composites.

(EDIT: ok, I think that the indication "a subset" can be the origin of the confusion. I do not choose randomly what quarks are allowed to play, but instead I explore all the space of possibilities: I set two variables s,r for the number of up-type and down-type quarks that are allowed to be, say, at the end of the string).

And then I show, by solving the equations for r,s and the total number N of generations, that there is a unique solution, s=2, r=3, N=3

The paper you describe is not my paper.

(EDIT: I will wrote and upload a v2 addressing the problems you mention).

The question you are asking in the request is a really good one: is it possible for a supersymmetry to link fundamental and composite particles? To link constituents to bound-states? This question will be well received here for sure

@Ron what is your definition of "well received"? A first comment about doing off-topic remarks does not seem a good reception to me.